Heathen Harvest: Hyvää päivää, Arktau Eos! It’s an honour to meet you. I've been really interested in your work, and the work of the other Aural Hypnox projects, since the beginning of the label, but this is the first opportunity I've had to talk to any Aural Hypnox artist. So, how are you enjoying the Equinox Festival?

Anti Haapapuro: I'm enjoying the festival very much at the moment. It’s a good opportunity for us to come here and experience plenty of stuff that’s going on right now.

HH: Are there any other lectures or performances that you are particularly looking forward to seeing, or that you have already seen?

Antti Litmanen: We just heard the lecture on mugwort by Robert Wallis, and that was interesting, because that’s a herb we’ve worked with on our own for quite a long time.

HH: The Halo Manash album Language Of Red Goats has a picture of mugwort on the cover.

AIH: Language Of Red Goats was based on our research into the plant. It’s about the reflections that we got while we were getting acquainted with the plant, which was a long process. But it was nice to hear about a different approach to this plant.

AIL: There are lots of old friends around, and we’re also looking forward to hear Robert Ansell speak about Austin Osman Spare. I mean, you have to have Austin Osman Spare in London!

HH: How about the music last night – who did you see?

AIH: We saw HATI and Z’EV. Z’EV is the one I've been waiting to see for many, many years. I saw HATI about a year ago in Poland, and I really like their stuff. I like the fact that they use acoustic instruments, and not the electronic stuff that everyone else is doing at the moment. But I've been following Z’EV for many years, and studying his writings, so it was great to finally see him play.

AIL: It was especially good to see them pulling the crowd around them in the middle of the venue. That was a very good move. It’s what we always try to do in our live shows, if at all possible – draw the audience in, somehow get them involved.

HH: It was the other way around for me, because I've seen Z’EV many times, since he’s based in London, but I'd never seen Hati, although I've been in touch with them for a while, so I was excited to see them.

I know that this is your second visit to London – you were here in September last year for a show at the Cavendish Arms in south London. Did you visit any special places in London on your last visit? Are there any places in London that you’re intending to visit this time?

AIH: Well, last year we were only here for three days, and it was quite a hectic time. We had two full days, and a performance in the evening, so we really only had time to visit the British Museum. But just being around in an old, old city like London is interesting – just wandering around the streets and getting oriented to the spirit of the place.

AIL: You’ve got so many layers of history in this place – I don’t know if you locals can appreciate it, but coming from Finland, which is very thin on urban history, it’s very nice.

HH: In the British Museum, did you see John Dee’s magical tools?

AIL: Not this time around, but I saw them on a visit in mid-90s.

HH: They have some wax tablets of sigils, and the black mirror that Dee’s medium Edward Kelley used to talk to the angels.

AIH: We tried to find them, but we didn’t have enough time. We just went to the Egyptian and Assyrian galleries, which I'd really wanted to see for many years.

AIL: John Dee has been an academic interest of mine, so I've followed his footsteps all the way to Prague. I've written a few things about him.

HH: If we get time, maybe I can take you round there – it’s just around the corner, and I know where the John Dee stuff is.

AIH: That would be great. Hopefully, we’ll have time to go there [in fact, AIH and I did visit the British Museum on Sunday, gazed into John Dee’s black mirror, and talked of many secret and arcane matters].

HH: So far, you’ve performed in Finland, Russia and England – are there any other countries or specific locations where you’d really like to perform?

AIL: You give us the plane tickets, and we’ll go anywhere, basically. You can set up a reasonable show anywhere.

AIH: We’re not picky. We’re interested in going all over the world. And apart from these venue and club gigs, I'm really interested in going to some sacred sites or power places. I would prefer to go into nature, where there is no electricity around, because we basically don’t need any electric equipment. We can play and do our rituals without light or power.

AIL: And that’s something we do privately anyway, so if there was a good chance to do it with a nice little crowd gathered around, we’d do it. Let’s put it this way – any conditions that people can offer us will be considered.

AIH: All the time, every year, I'm trying to push things further, that we go on more travels – not to do more city tours, but travelling in the countryside, and fine special places ourselves, and then perform there. It doesn’t have to be a specific place, but when you enter a place, you just know that this is the place where the performance should happen.

AIL: You have to tune into the landscape around you. There will always be some spot that pulls you like a magnet.

HH: I believe you’ve finished recording your third album – do you know yet when that will be released, and what the title will be?

AIL: It will be out very soon. The actual CDs are at customs right now, and by the time we return to Finland, we will be sending the album covers to press. It’s been a long process getting this album out, but I think it’s going to be worth the wait. It’s a massive album.

AIH: The recordings were finished about five months ago, but we decided to take a few months to concentrate on the artwork, because it’s as important as the music. We didn’t want to hasten and put everything together in two weeks.

AIL: We worked for so long on the music that it makes no sense to rush it at this point. But when this one is done, it’s a huge burden off our shoulders. Everything you do, everything you record, opens up new avenues, and I'm just dying to see what the next ones are. Things are going to happen.

AIH: Maybe this is not a good time to announce the title. We want to wait a couple more weeks.

HH: Presumably the album will be appearing on Aural Hypnox?

AIH: Yes, naturally. It’s a label where we can control everything ourselves, so we have final results that satisfy both of us.

HH: But there was a Halo Manash release on another label.

AIH: Yeah, that was a couple of years ago, on the Kaosthetic Konspiration label. I have always wanted to create a vinyl record, and at the moment, Aural Hypnox just doesn’t have the funds needed for vinyl production or DVDs, so that’s what that happened.

HH: That’s interesting, because I wanted to ask you about formats. So you’d like to release vinyls?

AIH: Yes, but there are some problems with doing that in Finland. The postal system in Finland is the most expensive in the whole world, so sending out vinyls costs a lot. If I send a vinyl to Britain, for example, it costs me almost 15 euros, so no-one would ever get to see these vinyls.

AIL: There’s no doctrinal decision against working with other labels, but the way things are, it’s most convenient for us to have complete control. If an interesting proposition came up, then we could look into it, but the pace we work at is very slow and meticulous, it’s not like we’re throwing out discs left and right all the time.

AIH: I also think it’s very important that all the groups in one label have the same spirit, because it would be rather insane to release Aural Hypnox or Arktau Eos albums through some label that releases industrial or very noisy music. It’s a completely different spirit.

AIH: We try to keep quite a tight leash on the things we do.

HH: Maybe you need to think about licensing vinyl editions on a foreign label.

AIH: Maybe one day it will happen. But for now, we’re trying to take things easy, and get things to work, and maybe one day we will have enough money to get things done.

AIL: And also, another thing is that we don’t have too much time. We’re working on a pretty tight schedule, although it might not seem like that to outsiders.

HH: So going back to the new album, what else are you able to tell me about it – what is the atmosphere of it, and what, if anything, has changed since Mirrorion and Scorpion Milk?

AIL: It conjoins and transcends both of our previous albums. It has elements of both albums, but we stripped everything down a little bit, and let the meditative or contemplative mood take over. It’s 12 songs spread over nearly two hours. It’s a hard album to describe actually, because I think it’s rather unique.

AIH: I think that this time we could be more focused on the music and the spirits. We didn’t have to rush things, because when we were recording Mirrorion, AIL was partly living in Helsinki, although he visited my place quite often. But now, he lives in Oulu too, and so we have plenty of time to think about things together.

AIL: This time around, we’ve spent more time concentrating on channelling and the actual sounds themselves, instead of extensive layering, but it’s still as big and full a sound as the last one. It’s a very full sound, but done with so many fewer elements than before.

HH: So what kind of instruments did you use in the recording of it? Were there a lot of electronics used, or is the album largely acoustic?

AIH: I think it’s mostly acoustic instruments. There are some very old electric organs from the 60s, and a reed harmonium, but only at points where we felt it was really needed. The rest is all acoustic. Also this album is completely played by hand. It’s actual instruments, played by people in single takes with no editing.

HH: No sequencing or programming?

AIH: There were no computers used during the recording process. A couple of years back, I decided to build my own analogue studio which runs on reel-to-reel tape recorders. Everything runs on analogue technology. If somebody is listening to the record from the point of view of a musician, there are points where it is slippery and shaky, but for us it represents the actual take that we thought best embodied the spirit of the place and the moment.

HH: So in some ways it’s like a live recording?

AIL: Yes. Basically, most of the stuff we did on this album is live recording. We set things up, and put the microphones in place, we press ‘Record’, and then we play.

HH: Are your recordings improvised, or do you know in advance how it’s going to sound?

AIH: Sometimes there are parts that we think out beforehand, like string instrument parts, but mostly it’s driven by the spirits.

AIL: And it’s very much a self-revealing process, so it’s as much of an adventure for us as it is for somebody listening to it for the first time.

AIH: There is always a focus for something, and then we just let ourselves be vehicles or vessels.

AIL: There’s no need to spell it out for people. Usually we get a response anyway

HH: I'm interested in the way that Arktau Eos is interrelated to various other Aural Hypnox projects. AIH, you have been part of most of the other projects who have been released on Aural Hypnox, including Aeoga, Aural Holograms, Halo Manash and I.Corax, whilst you, AIL, guested on both of the Zoät-Aon albums. I know that you are keen to downplay the importance of individual personalities within your work, you’re not interested in being rock stars – but can you tell me something about how Aural Hypnox works in practical terms? For example, when you’re recording, do you know in advance that a particular recording is for, say, Arktau Eos, or for Halo Manash, or is this decided after the recording has been made? Do you work as Arktau Eos one day and then Halo Manash the next day, or do you work on one project or the other for extended periods of time?

AIH: There are different seasons for each group. I never work like, this day is for Halo Manash, this day is for Aeoga. When we are recording Arktau Eos, I spend a couple of months just concentrating on that, and then when it’s time to work on Halo Manash, I focus on that. There’s never an overlap. I never think that this piece could be used for this project.

AIL: Yes, you know it because you work on it. And also, there would be no sense, especially not for AIH, in doing projects that were exactly the same, because why then change the name? There is a different ethos at work in each of the different groups. I'm not speaking for Zoät-Aon or Aeoga, but contrasting Arktau Eos and Halo Manash, whereas Halo Manash is more of an amorphous entity, with a revolving-door policy of people coming in and out, Arktau Eos was started specifically because we two wanted to work together. We go into themes that are beyond us, but they are explored within the context of a practical magical dynamic between us, which creates a sort of idiosyncratic magical language. Sometimes it’s a church, and sometimes it’s a coven, but it’s always an interaction between us.

AIH: Arktau Eos would fold if either of us was dead or something. In my mindset, each of the Aural Hypnox groups has very specific points or aspects that I want to emphasise, and the differences are very obvious to me. I don’t know if they are for other people, but the driving forces behind the different projects are, well, not completely different, but the come from different sources.

AIL: They use different idioms, basically.

HH: So you think that each of the various Aural Hypnox projects has a separate and distinct identity and flavour, and there’s a great significance to the different project names?

AIL: Obviously, but there’s nothing stopping us from working within a different project if we decide on that course of action. But then it has to be under the parameters set by each different group. Nothing is set in stone, but for use there are definite guidelines governing the way we work, and they are mostly born out of the intrinsic identity of the group in question.

HH: The first Aural Hypnox release was Par-Antra I: Vir by Halo Manash, but was Halo Manash the original Aural Hypnox project?

AIH: Yes, it was the first project. Before Aural Hypnox, I was working on the Blue Sector label which I co-founded with a friend of mine, Jaakko, who’s now doing Zoät-Aon. I worked with Jaakko as I.Corax for many years, and we started the Blue Sector label, and then I decided that I needed to have my own label to put all my energies into. And that was around the time that I finished the second official Halo Manash release Par-Antra I: VIR with Iwo, and we decided that it was going to be the first release on Aural Hypnox.

HH: The various Aural Hypnox projects that I've heard all seem to have a very masculine feel to them – have you thought about trying to get some female involvement to provide a more balanced sexual energy?

AIL: I've been thinking quite a lot about this, and for me, there are female aspects also. If you think about it in terms of traditional attributions, especially on the new Arktau Eos album, there are lots of lunar, watery elements, things that are associated traditionally with feminine energies. I think that why people don’t see the feminine side of the projects is because we are quite forceful in our output - but then some female deities are as well! So it’s not missing, but maybe it’s a bit in between the lines in there.

AIH: I really think that in our material, we are not trying to create a specific atmosphere, it just comes out. And there’s also a big, overarching aim to get beyond the mundane parameters. We do not need them to rationalise things or discuss them.

AIL: In the end, it doesn’t matter – it’s just power or energy, whatever you want to call it.

HH: What was the inspiration for the creation of Arktau Eos? Were you influenced by the examples of any other artists?

AIL: Not really. We were introduced to each other by a mutual friend, and we connected on certain things which led to the creation of Mirrorion, which was preceded by quite a bit of experimentation and research – not of the musical kind, mind you. Then, when we were finished with the material for the first album, we decided on the very same day that this is called Arktau Eos, and this is the way it works.

AIH: For me, the best way to get to know another person is to go to the woods with them, go to the special places, and try to communicate with them and with the prevailing elements and currents, and then you can really say that you know the person when you have been with him in that kind of situation.

AIL: That’s true. The sessions leading up to Mirrorion, and the recording sessions for that album, were a wild time. Some of the things that happened were quite extreme. We’re talking about external influences and dangerous conditions. We also recorded in a haunted house that was demolished the next day… lots of constructive and destructive energies going around in a kind of vortex. Mirrorion is like a tentacle coming from the water, like – [makes throat-grabbing gesture].

HH: What about esoteric inspiration – were you working within a particular tradition, or with particular godforms or other spiritual entities?

AIL: You could say that there were particular godforms. I'm not going into that here, but there was nothing within a single, particular tradition, because one of the aims in Arktau Eos was to create a new magical language for ourselves, which means that we may be aware of traditions, we may respect them, we may study them, but within the context of Arktau Eos, we are more focused on seeing what comes out of its own volition, and not deliberately push it into any available set of attributes, for example. But the interesting thing is that independently from us, people working in different magical traditions have been sending us long letters containing confirmations of what we did without allowing those influences consciously in, so it works on many levels and is capable of connecting. That’s important, because despite our personal angle, this is not an exercise in egotism.

HH: It seems to me that your work is much more concerned with the western ceremonial magick tradition than with heathenism or indigenous northern traditions such as Sami shamanism – is this a fair assessment?

AIL: Maybe, but I would like to say that they are not mutually exclusive. I think the way we work is more like the way a Haitian bokor would do things, using available influences and doing whatever you need to do to get the job done.

HH: It’s noticeable that all the other artists I'm interviewing at the festival are billed as music performances, whereas Arktau Eos are billed as a ritual performance. Is this an accurate description? Do you consider your work to be primarily musical or ritual?

AIH: I think we’re very comfortable that we’re classed as a ritual performance, because I don’t see any difference between our musical performance and our ritual performance. I think it would always be the same, even if we are billed as musicians. We often take our musical instruments out into the woods when we aren’t thinking about music.

AIL: We’ve said this before, but I think that ten percent of Arktau Eos is the musical output and the things that you see. It’s the head of the snake, and then there’s the unseen body which moves it. It’s not that we deliberately attempt to be very mysterious, it’s just the way that things work out. We like to keep it sacred, and keep the mystery and imagination and creativity in there.

AIH: For me, the music has always been a kind of ritual. I don’t see any difference between our music and our rituals. The sound is a ritual for me.

AIL: Also, we’ve spent quite a lot of time to set things up so that the sounds seem to be transferring something. It’s not like, plug in and play and see if you can get a great solo out of the guitar.

HH: So is there a specific intention behind the performance you are giving here?

AIL: Of course! There is always an intention, but again, I would rather not speak of it in advance. It’s like what we were saying earlier about the self-revelatory nature of Arktau Eos – we think of the music like ethnography of the unknown. We are bringing strange artefacts to people to wonder what they’re about.

AIH: In the end, it’s all about experiencing. I really want people to experience something new for themselves, and to try to interpret what they are seeing for themselves.

HH: Is it easy to translate your music into live performance? Do you attempt to recreate music from your releases, or are your performances improvised?

AIL: We’re not very concerned about it being exactly the same, no.

AIH: No, the end results are always up to the spirits of the place, and our interaction with them, and the audience also.

HH: Do you enjoy performing live? It seems as if your music is more designed for solitary contemplation or meditation.

AIL: You’re correct in that, but there’s also an adventurous side to Arktau Eos, going out on a limb to see what happens. It’s part of our exploratory ethic to go out there.

AIH: For me, it’s like, if we are performing in the deep forest just for ourselves, then when we go on stage in a venue and there are people around, you shut yourself off from the people surrounding you and you are basically still alone, experiencing. That’s why we wear the masks onstage, because we are becoming vessels.

HH: It’s about depersonalisation?

AIL: Well, there’s a part of the personality which keeps the equipment running and follows some guidelines we’ve set up beforehand, but you know, as for the rest, we do leave something open for a certain amount of depersonalisation. That’s where the creativity comes in.

HH: Your performance at this festival is being supported by the Finnish Embassy. Were you surprised to receive official recognition like this?

AIL: To put it mildly! The Equinox Festival organiser, Raymond Salvatore Harmon, pulled that off somehow. We got a message about it, and we were contacted by the embassy afterwards. We’ve never sought any official recognition or anything, but of course we appreciate it. It’s a big bonus, and it has helped us to be able to do this properly. But we definitely didn’t see that one coming.

HH: So it’s good to be cultural ambassadors?

AIL: [general laughter] I don’t know! You should probably ask the embassy if they feel the same way!

HH: Many people who listen to your music find it extremely dark and frightening – is this the kind of reaction you expected or hoped for? Do you yourselves consider your work to be dark?

AIL: We were discussing this a couple of days ago, actually. I do recognise the darkness in there, but you know, there’s no pretension in there. If you experience our work as dark, maybe it’s because you’re experiencing areas in your subconscious which you’ve never really explored before. Darkness is not a preference – it does come out, though.

AIH: I think that people, when they are dealing with something unknown, always think of it as very dark, because they don’t really know what’s going on. It’s a natural reaction.

HH: You are based in northern Finland, surrounded by very spectacular and extreme natural beauty, in both the landscape and the climate. Do you think this is an important factor in your work?

AIL: During the Mirrorion period, we downplayed that side, and said it was irrelevant, because it was getting so boring… Whatever you do, when you come from northern Finland, people assume you’re shamans, or this or that, so we didn’t want to be part of any of that. But of course, the places themselves do have an influence.

AIH: Yes, I think that they influence your mind. For example, if I'm here in London for a week, I think I could never create anything like Arktau Eos, but when I'm back home, when I open my back door there’s a forest right there, and I can go for a walk. I need those kinds of places. I need some wilderness around me.

HH: So if the two of you were living in London, then Arktau Eos wouldn’t exist, or it would very different?

AIH: I think it would be very different. The sound would be much harder and more aggressive. I'm not saying it wouldn’t exist, but it would take a very different form.

HH: Can you tell me anything about other Aural Hypnox activity this year – are any releases from other projects scheduled?

AIH: Halo Manash finished a new album and a video-dvd about a year ago, called Taiwaskivi, which I think will be released in the late autumn. I've also finished with Iwo [note: Iwowi, live percussions for Arktau Eos] a Halo Manash album called Caickuwi Cauwas Walkeus which was already released in a limited CD-R edition for our last tour in France – we hope to re-release this album in the form of a proper CD. In addition, we have two live recordings ready from the Forest Music – Ocean Fire tour of France in August 2008, so maybe there will be four Halo Manash releases this year. Let’s see if I have enough time to get everything ready and get the money together to put them all out.

AIL: As for Arktau Eos, we’ve just cleared the table, so we’ll see what the next direction will be.