Heathen Harvest: Can you begin by discussing how Dream Into Dust originally formed?
Derek Rush: I'd done two short releases under the name December in 1995-96, but it became clear the name wasn't distinctive enough from other band names. My frame of mind at the time was very unhealthy, and I couldn't continue in that way. Naturally, the music and concepts changed as well. I'd just done a 7" for Misanthropy Records, so I wanted a new release with a different name as soon as possible. "Dream Into Dust" was a potential title for an earlier work I called "Hope for Nothing," so the unused name became the new project. I wanted to expand and differentiate the sound from the old one. So I asked a few friends to contribute some improvisational noises, which I edited and used to create the soundscape sections of the songs, although I also did some of that myself.
HH: Can you explain what the band's name represents?
DR: Like a lot of things I write, it has multiple meanings, not all of them as negative as people may think. The most obvious one is your aspirations failing, or not going as planned. Another is the idea that "life is but a dream" combined with our becoming dust, which I think is a neutral interpretation, since death is an inevitable fact of life rather than something unnecessarily depressing. Another meaning people probably don't think of is that when you wake, your dreams dissipate one way or another. This isn't necessarily a negative thing though, especially if it was a bad dream. There are dreams I've had that I was glad turned to dust and were forgotten! In fact you could also say a dream turns into dust once it comes true, because the reality, even if good, is never the same as imagined - again, not always a bad thing, just a fact.
HH: What was the initial artistic vision for Dream Into Dust?
DR: I don't think there was any specific vision for the band as a whole. There were certain sounds and feelings I'd begun to portray, and it was just about continuing to do so intensely and hopefully
poetically.
HH: How has that vision evolved or transformed through the history of the band?
DR: In a sense it's still the same as what I just said, but I express different aspects depending of my feelings at the time. You could say the early work was more obsessed with certain negative themes and states of mind. With each release I've tried to bring more contrast, and express a wider array of emotions.
HH: Who are the current active members of Dream Into Dust and when did each member join the band?
DR: The main members are myself and Bryin Dall. Bryin didn't so much join as get roped into doing more sessions and then playing live. Now he's around a lot even if he's not playing anything. He makes important comments and suggestions that make things better, and he's very good at certain studio processing tricks. We've had other people guest on various instruments; Patrick Hogan and Eddy Malave were semi-regular contributors on feedback noises and viola/violin, respectively. We have a bassist and keyboardist live, although we eventually want people that can be full members.
HH: What initially drew the members of Dream Into Dust into choosing music as a chosen form for their creative output?
DR: I abused an upright piano as a child, and there were music lessons at my school, but I hated them. I later realized the problem was musical notation. When I wasn't constrained by that, I could make whatever noises I wanted to. I wanted to be a visual artist though, until at some point I felt uninspired to draw. As a way around this, a fellow artist and I recorded tapes of manipulated records, pretended to be nonexistent musicians and then drew album covers and comic books based on these characters. Soon I began putting more effort into creating the tapes than doing the covers, but I wanted to do something more original. I saved up for a small monophonic synthesizer, and recorded it with bongos, multiple cheap tape machines and effects and some attempts at vocals. At first I had no real money or concept of doing anything more professional even though I was spending hours a day doing this. Eventually I began to play piano more seriously, and then taught myself bass and guitar. I started to realize I was trying to do something more than having fun making noises in the basement, and started getting better equipment and trying to send songs out into the world.
HH: What musical experience did each member of Dream Into Dust have in the music industry before joining the band?
DR: I first assumed what had to be done was contact major record labels and send them demos, so I did that. The usual reaction was of course to be ignored, or sent a standard rejection letter. I did get some good responses and meetings with people, but they complained the material was too dark, or too electronic, and of course the ever-popular "I don't hear a single.” Disillusioned with the mainstream path, I found a book called "Cassette Mythos" on DIY tape culture. I also realized that a lot of bands having success got there by doing it themselves first. So I decided to just release things myself, which ended up brining me to the attention of some independent record labels.
HH: Can you briefly discuss any alternate projects that members of Dream Into Dust are also actively involved in?
DR: Bryin's main project is 4th Sign of the Apocalypse, a brilliant vehicle for his whimsical sample juxtapositions and inventive sound processing. He's also a core member of Thee Majesty with Genesis P-Orridge. Bryin and I have another project called A Murder of Angels, which is as well-known as our main projects, but that's sort of in limbo right now. Besides that, we've both worked on Of Unknown Origin (an instrumental experimental/industrial project), and we both still float around his band Loretta's Doll. I decided a few years ago to curb other activity to a minimum and focus on DID. The thing I'm most excited about aside from DID at the moment is playing on the new album by Stars Like Fleas, a great avant-folk/experimental band.
HH: What drew each member of Dream Into Dust into the post-industrial music genre?
DR: We never think of a particular genre when creating, we just follow our muses and then later figure out what existing genres it's similar to, just to let people know what we're doing. If you mean what drew me as a listener, someone lent me the "Industrial Handbook" by RE/Search, and I wondered what the music sounded like. I heard what's now called Industrial, meaning EBM/dance, and then followed that back to the original people. The first time I heard the term "Post-Industrial" was probably applied to Cold Meat Industry releases around 1993.
HH: Dream Into Dust's first album was titled "No Mans Land." The music on "No Mans Land" is a combination of ambient and experimental sounds combined with strong rhythmic influences and distinct bass guitar. How did you initially conceive the musical palette for "No Mans Land"?
DR: At the time, I was trying to get across the physical and emotional place I was in. I wasn't totally alone in my life, but that was how I felt inside. So there was lots of greyness, emptiness, and cold. I was also reading a lot of magick books at the time, and I was using references in the lyrics to express those feelings. Those lyrics in turn influenced the musical sound.
HH: "No Mans Land " seemed to set the stage for later Dream Into Dust releases with song titles such as "The Lost Crusade,” "Age of Delirium," and "Dissolution." These song titles as well as the album's title seem to express a general disillusionment towards mankind, culture, and society. Is this true? And if so, can you elaborate upon your personal feelings concerning this disillusionment?
DR: I suppose those titles did set the stage for awhile, although I feel we've been moving away from that kind of thing. There definitely was disillusionment with mankind on that release, although expressed more on the next CD. The chief things that annoyed me were the callous ways people treat each other, prejudice, and the willingness to go to war. I also saw war itself as a metaphor for modern life. Not the kind of war they show in most Hollywood films, which is glamorous and heroic, where everyone's an interesting character and there's a nice resolution after a lot of big explosions that are made to look sexy. More like the kind of war that drags on and on, when everyone looks the same covered in camouflage and dirt, numbing their feelings to get through each day, being out in the cold all the time in a boring, desolate, destroyed landscape. I saw life like that - not only in my life, but in other people's faces and in the grinding repetitiveness of mass media.
HH: How was "No Mans Land" received by industrial music enthusiasts?
DR: It's hard to say, because the term "Industrial" is kind of split in two. Most people, especially in the US , take the word to mean EBM/dance music. We never really did that. "The Lost Crusade" and "Disconnected" sort of veer in that direction but then break away from it. I still love some of that music, but we've never had a dance floor mindset. I think we're more appreciated by people who listen carefully to sounds and pore over lyric sheets. The CD did get a lot of good reviews, but the "I-word" wasn't used a lot. I don't have a problem with it, if they mean in the sense of Throbbing Gristle or NoN; just don't expect us to sound like Front Line Assembly.
HH: The following Dream Into Dust Release was a limited edition 7" vinyl and cassette release titled "A Prison For Oneself." This album was based upon the British television series titled "The Prisoner." Can you discuss what motivated you to release an album based upon this television show? What exactly was your intention and what were you attempting to communicate about the show through your music?
DR: That's actually a 7" single and one extra song on the cassette. That's because those were formats that were around at the time the show was on, in 1967-68. I was mostly doing a musical tribute, as well as using the show's dark side to express an abstract version of my relation to society. At the time, I lived in a place called "the village,” just like in the show. It was swiftly becoming a similarly fake, sunny, artificial place, which was the opposite of why I'd moved there. In our daily lives, we end up like prisoners in a sense, having to walk a certain path to and from our "cells", small rooms with bars on the windows that we can barely afford unless we stay at soul-destroying jobs where we're forced to smile inanely. That made me think of Jean-Paul Sarte's vision of a very polite Hell in "No Exit,” and from there it's a short leap to Dante's Inferno. This is why the map of the village included with the record is laid out like the show's, but is labeled like Dante's. As bleak as that sort of vision is, I also find it kind of funny. I like black humor, and half the things I write that sound so depressive are thought of with a smirk.
HH: The third album by Dream Into Dust is titled "The World We Have Lost." "The World We Have Lost" is actually the first Dream Into Dust album I personally bought and was also the first introduction I had to the band. I was initially attracted to the title of the album and the message I personalized from it. Can you explain the title of the album?
DR: "The World We Have Lost" was a book title I saw in a store, which was about WWII I think. At the time I collected books of war photography, partially for use as artwork, but also just because then I found them fascinating. I never bought colorful books about the machinery, battles, or uniforms. They were mostly in black and white, showing the hope of fresh-faced young men and women, inevitably followed by endless scenes of horrific destruction. There's victory at the end, but I always thought about what had been lost in between. I was also thinking about the world of the past that's changed and been lost in the process. Or a certain time and place in life, such as college, when people create a whole little world they live in for a few years, and then it's gone. The meanings go on, and your personal interpretation is probably as valid as any I could list.
HH: Was the album "The World We Have Lost" a defining point for the band and did the album noticeably expand your audience?
DR: It exposed us to a more "metal" audience, since we were on Elfenblut/Misanthropy and being distributed and promoted through the same channels as Burzum and In the Woods.... I was listening to a lot of dark metal at the time, which influenced the music of that period somewhat. I think we still have some interest from those fans to this day. It was definitely meant as a major statement since it was actually our first full-length album.
HH: I discovered "The World We Have Lost" through Middle Pillar Distribution which is also in NYC. How did your work relationship with Middle Pillar come about?
DR: I already knew the owner of MPD as the drummer of Loretta's Doll, and was doing layout for both the band and his catalogs, so it was pretty much inevitable that he carry our work since we were doing music in the same vein.
HH: The CD booklet included with "The World We Have Lost" is embellished with photographs of soldiers, combat, fallen soldiers, and scenes of wartime decimation. Can you discuss what war era these pictures are taken?
DR: They're from all different eras. Although they were chosen partially for the aesthetics of the sleeve, I was careful to avoid too many images from one war or another.
HH: What inspired the use of these pictures and how do they relate to the musical concept behind the music?
DR: The picture behind each song relates to the lyrics in some way. I was trying to show something universal rather than specifically reference one moment in history. People mostly assume it's all from WWII, which sort of proves the visual point I was trying to make. Violence and destruction look pretty much the same no matter what country or time period it happens in. It makes you wonder if mankind has learned anything in all this time.
HH: The album "The World We Have Lost" also reflects scenes of disenchantment and echoes the terrors of humanity. What has drawn Dream Into Dust to explore such dark and morose themes?
DR: Basically it was the way I was seeing the world, and events in my life and those around me. I can't say the world has really gotten much better, but I suppose my attitude about it has changed somewhat. There's only so much you can dwell on these issues, only so many songs you can write about the same subject matter. The feelings are still there, but we can express them by playing the songs live.
HH: In the liner notes it says "hail to" followed by a list of writers, philosophers, and cultural icons. What role do such icons as Frater Perdurabo, Kenneth Grant, Friedrich Nietzsche, Norman Mailer, and J.P. Sartre play in the music and concept of Dream Into Dust? What relevance do they have in your personal life?
DR: Those were people whose works specifically influenced the lyrics of "The World We Have Lost.” I used the name Perdurabo as opposed to his more well-known name so that only certain people would know who I meant, since he's often misunderstood and also used as an icon by poseurs. I was very interested in the ideas in Kenneth Grant's "Nightside of Eden," which I basically interpreted as, "without darkness there can be no light." Both of their writings profoundly influenced "Cross the Abyss," among other songs. Nietzsche's texts on Christianity and Nihilism echoed my own feelings. Norman Mailer's "The Crucible" played a part in the song "Eternal Inquisition." Sartre's existentialist plays were favorites of mine, and of course he wrote the quote used inside the CD booklet.
HH: Can you briefly discuss the meaning of the songs "Nothing but Blood" and "Farewell to Eden "?
DR: I really like to leave lyrics open to interpretation, and "Nothing but Blood" is one that has several layers of meaning I'd prefer to let people get on their own. "Farewell to Eden " is an exploration of similar themes to the whole concept of "The World We Have Lost," but focusing more on lost innocence, beauty, hope, and youth. One line I'll explain is "a change of fortune in the bitter frost is all that brings on remorse": this is probably the only direct reference I've ever made lyrically to WWII; it refers to the battle of Stalingrad . It's noting that people usually don't regret the things they've done until they're the ones on the losing end, and it's too late.
HH: The next release was a 7" vinyl titled "Salvation's Corridor" which was released on the French music label Athanor. How did your working relationship with Athanor begin?
DR: I've admired Athanor's output since their first great compilation "Mysteria Mithrae" and always wanted to work with them. World Serpent was doing a picture disc series, and they agreed to do one with us, but then began having scheduling issues, and it kept getting pushed back. After a year of this, I decided to offer it to other labels. Athanor was the nicest and most enthusiastic and gave the best deal.
HH: How did you come to decide to make "Salvation's Corridor" a limited edition release?
DR: I love specially-packaged, limited edition releases and always wanted to do a picture disc. The collector mentality, which I share somewhat, responds to the knowledge that something is rare, if it's something of quality. It was limited to 333 copies because that's the magickal number equated with opening, chaos, and change.
HH: "Salvation's Corridor" is very different musically from "The World We have Lost." Most notable are the lack of lyrics and the sheer ambience of the music. What inspired such a transition in sound from the "The World We Have Lost"? Can you explain the meaning of the title "Salvation's Corridor"?
DR: I write music from what inspires me in my life at the time. I was going through a transitional period in a lot of ways, and vinyl and small releases are by nature ephemeral. I think the first side is similar in construction to pieces on the previous CD, such as "Enemy at the Gates," as well as the compilation tracks we'd been doing. Very dark and ominous, growing in a linear way from beginning to climactic end. It's meant to represent walking down a long corridor, both literal and metaphorical. Something difficult you have to go through in order to get from one place to another. Once you're through that, the real change can begin, which is represented by the other side, "Crystal Mirrors." This was the brightest, most hopeful track we'd done yet, although there's a dark undercurrent in the drone, because you're still in the transition between darkness and light.
HH: The latest release by Dream Into Dust is titled "The Lathe of Heaven." The music in "The Lathe of Heaven" is yet another evolution in the music of Dream Into Dust. On "The Lathe of Heaven" the music of Dream Into Dust has evolved into a merging of industrial, acoustic, and experimental influences. What brought about this stylistic change in your music?
DR: I see each release as an expansion of the sound previously explored. This time I decided to let in more electronic sounds, which also fit with lyrics about being disconnected or feeling like your body is a machine shutting down. The experimental element was increased by including Bryin more. I'm capable of that sort of thing too, but no one does it like he can.
HH: Many commentators have said that "The Lathe of Heaven" is a challenging listen due to its experimental elements and the innovative sound combinations. Are such comments encouraging and in line with what your intentions were while creating the album?
DR: I do put lot of effort into arrangement, but I don't try to pretend we're doing the most innovative, challenging music ever. I like good pop tunes, but I also like things other people call "difficult listening.” We often try to do both at the same time or meet somewhere in the middle. I suppose that's the thing some people find daunting about us, that we usually refuse to let them have it one way or the other. We're neither pure commercial pop songwriters, nor stodgy underground experimentalists.
HH: The compositions that grace "The Lathe of Heaven" are seemingly complex and unorthodox in many ways. How does Dream Into Dust go about charting a course into such unfamiliar and unexplored music?
DR: I don't think it's been completely unexplored. There are a lot of great artists doing music far more complex, or mixing styles in an unorthodox manner. It depends on one's point of reference. We just try to do things we'd like to hear, and though we like nice tunes, we get bored easily because we know there's a lot more to music than that.
HH: The artwork that accompanies "The Lathe of Heaven" is compelling and dark. The theme appears to be an exploration of thought, the organic form, and technology. Who created the photographic artwork for "The Lathe of Heaven"? Were these photos developed specifically for the album?
DR: I created the artwork specifically for the album by making collages of odd images from the past 80 years. The elements I chose unintentionally had themes of machinery, dehumanized or mutilated figures, and decaying backgrounds. A lot of the photos were fairly innocuous until I put them together. There was no plan except to make interesting artwork that seemed to fit with the album that was being made at the time. I'm sure psychoanalysis of me could be done based on the finished pieces, but just like the lyrics, I feel they're open to a certain amount of interpretation from the audience.
HH: "The Lathe of Heaven" is lyrically similar to previous releases. The lyrics reflect very existential experiences and thoughts. Is the lyrical content a personal reflection of the author or is it meant to be less of a personal narrative?
DR: I think all the releases are personal to some extent, in that it's a reflection of my views at the time. But certainly "The Lathe of Heaven" has a more "internal" focus, since it relates to dreams and reality, as opposed to other works which focused on sociopolitical issues or specific themes given to us for compilation tracks.
HH: Can you discuss the personal meaning behind the songs "How The Roses Burned" and "Distant Horizon" which appear on "The Lathe of Heaven"?
DR: "How The Roses Burned" operates on several levels, as I usually try to do. It's about irrevocably ending relationships, whether romantic, friendship, or business. "Distant Horizon" was written specifically to be in that spot on the album, since it illustrates the metaphor of slow but steady progress through a metaphorical desert towards an uncertain but hopefully better place.
HH: Dream Into Dust draws upon numerous musical styles and instruments within any single song. Can you please discuss how the band approaches the process of composing a Dream Into Dust song? Are songs composed by a single member of the band or are compositional duties shared amongst the members of the band? Do lyrics or music come first?
DR: The compositions almost always come from me. Bits of music and lyrics usually come separately and are joined when they begin to coagulate, although in rare instances musical pieces are almost finished before words are written. Other times the lyric is a specific and clear statement that's done long before I find a piece of music to put it to. In some cases, like "Distant Horizon," the song is a mental progression, so the parts evolve together. A few exceptions are when Bryin has improvised without my having any kind of idea, and then we build a song around that.
HH: Dream Into Dust plays live shows on occasion. How well does the music of Dream Into Dust translate into a live concert? Is it technically difficult to reproduce the same complexity of sound that is offered on the bands recorded albums?
DR: It's basically impossible without a huge budget to reproduce that kind of studio sound live. Obviously the sparser songs are more possible, but I think we've done pretty well with the translation of the songs we've done live so far. I had to realize early on that live and studio are two separate things, each satisfying different requirements. Once you accept that, it's a lot easier to break things down into their most important elements and balance between playing something people recognize and taking them somewhere else with the music.
HH: Each Dream Into Dust album seems to be a small encapsulated narrative that is created by combining elements of philosophy, music, and visual art. Is it the band's intention to offer a complete and all-encompassing artistic statement?
DR: Yes. This is why I hope albums stick around in some form or another. CD's are seen as less practical than mp3's, but the latter are basically slightly degraded copies, allowing people to make virtual jukeboxes. A nice option, but I liken it to a diet of nothing but snacks on the go; sometimes you really need to sit down to a full meal.
HH: Can you discuss the band's connection to the label Chthonic Streams?
DR: Chthonic Streams is the label I started to release the first Dream Into Dust CD when Misanthropy was too busy to handle us. At one time it was going to expand into signing other artists, possibly some from the 'On the Brink of Infinity' compilation, but there's just not enough time to devote to that. There's too many little labels anyway. So we just use it to push ourselves forward instead of waiting around for others to make us an offer.
HH: Dream Into Dust is based in NYC in the USA while much of the modern post industrial music scene is currently being manifested out of Europe . Do you find that the music of Dream Into Dust is equally embraced in the U.S. and abroad?
DR: It may be, I'm not sure. We seem to get a good percentage of mailing list names and sales from the US because we're based here, but there are also a lot from Europe and some farther, which always impresses me.
HH: Does Dream Into Dust have an established local fan base in NYC?
DR: New York City is a tough town, which is currently still under the sway of Indie Pop/Rock. I do enjoy bands like that, but I liken the situation to Seattle in the early 90's; there are a lot of good bands, but mostly one kind of music being focused on. Still, it's very exciting being here now, you can go see and potentially play with some great musicians. The chief obstacles are compartmentalization, where you're expected to be a laptop artist if you're Electronic, Indie Rock if you're a band or a solo Folk singer if you use an acoustic guitar. We always get a very good reaction when we play, and not just from the converted, who seem to be Neofolk/Post-Industrial holdovers from the Goth/EBM scene and a few curious experimental music devotees. The challenge is getting to play for other people without compromising what we want to do.
HH: And lastly, is there anything you would like to say in parting?
DR: Thanks very much for the interview. We hope people will keep their ears and minds open for whatever we do next.
